A wealth of information is available, but the data is surrounded by noise. For every knowledgeable enthusiast, there are many more misinformed or incorrect speculators whose opinions usually spring from personal preference or a need to hear themselves talk.
Instead of reading other websites or books, he should have done a AskSlashdot:)
In my opinion (a WRX), it's best to leave any mods/upgrades to the experts. If you have the money to spend on mods, you should have the money to pay for the experts' time. Cars, in most cases, are the second most expensive asset a person's going to get (after a supercomputer), so I would rather put it in good hand, and just enjoy the outcome, not the journey of car mods.
That's how my nephew became an expert. He runs PCMforless.com [pcmforless.com] along with a friend of his. They both started programming mod chips for their own cars. As they got better, friends started asking them to mod their chips. Now they have a pretty good business and a reputation for turning out excellent mods. Now they are using their 'hobby' to pay for college!:)
I know a couple people who mod their cars. The impression I get is that, for them, the joy is in the journey, not the destination. One guy I know sells cars and boats off once he's done fixing them up.
I'd tend to agree when it comes to novices and people who want a fast daily driver. But, personally, I'd rather become an expert myself and turn every bolt. That's why I built my own project car [trunkmonkeyracing.com] from the ground up for rally and ice racing.
But, by your logic, most computer users of high end systems should only trust installing software to the experts at Best Buy.;)
If you want something done right, often you have to do it yourself. Finding a good tuner shop is TOUGH.
And in some cases, you might have a car where you'll need to do all the research and fabrication yourself. Some cars have impressive performance potential, but for various reasons were ignored by the aftermarket.
Plus in some cases, the challenge is to produce a sleeper car that no one expects to be fast.
http://www.turbovan.net/ and http://www.thedodgegarage.com/ are good examples of people who REALLY
I do most of my own auto work because I've had a hard time finding someone capable of competently fixing common problems on my low-performance sedan. I can usually do better with a few hours and a Hayne's or Chilton's manual.
There are plenty of tuner shops around, but I bet Sturgeon's law is even worse than with general mechanics.
Even if you are going to pay someone else, you need enough clue to know what to ask for.
Beginner - bolt on the exhaust and make vroom vroom noises. Do you really want to pay someone $70/hr to install this?
Intermediate - replacing engine components - camshaft heads; Bolting on superchargers. Almost everything in kit form. Requires an investment in tools (Sear Craftsman - not too bad)
Advanced - Fabrication! Welding in roll cages (maybe even bending them yourself). Welding up your own exhaust because no on
Well-maintained older cars actually produce less pollution than a lot of newer cars. Strange but true (hint - the stuff from catalytic converters is incredibly nasty, the stuff from non-cat is less nasty but there's more of it). Plus, they're easy to work on, parts are cheap, and you can always get good used expensive bits from the scrapyard.
If you put your car into a "Kwik-fit" type place for an oil change (£15 oil change offers are pretty common in tyre and exhaust centres round here) then that i
... and old Citroens [gjcp.ath.cx] - that's a GSA with an aircooled 1300cc flat four, which takes it to around 115mph (will cruise all day at just under the ton). Going from 0-60 in about 11 seconds is helped by the upper rev limit of around 8,500rpm...
The 2CVs and Dyanes had an aircooled 600cc twin (with fairly manky exhaust emissions if not properly looked after). The 2CV Sahara was four wheel drive - it had a second engine mounted at the back!
And of course, if you want to really enjoy the aircooled fun, get a Tatr
Do I need to install a really big fan on my car to mod it?
Um, yes actually. If you're tuning a turbo car with an intercooler, you need a large fan to provide airflow while getting the boost and fuel map right.
Nope, just a HUGE wing, tons of stickers (they add about 5hp a piece) and the biggest, most obnoxious sounding coffee-can exhaust pipe you can find. Extra points for "cutting" your own springs for a lower ride. To increase handling, make sure to get the oversized 18" rims with 1" low-pro tires, make sure you get a few spares, and keep that jack handy! Oh.. and don't forget to get the carbon fiber hood. Before you know it.. your Chevy Cav will be blowing the doors off of Z's, RX8's, Vette's, Vipers... you wi
Type-R, phesh, whatever... I have a "Maserati" sticker across my windshield.... I drive a rusty late 80's 4-door Cavalier with the paint peeling off, the next sticker is going to be "2fast4paint".
>>Does the book cover proper application of Type R decals?
Somehow this critical chapter was left out... editors these days! (sigh)
Addendum. Chapter 31: "Sticker-charging" your Rice Rocket Subtitled: If you can't go fast, make up for it by looking silly.
To increase the co-efficient of drag, add weight, reduce ETs and gain street cred with your peeps consider plastering your POS ragged-out pathetic bomb of an economy car with stickers. More is better, especially on four-door models. Our testing has fou
For every knowledgeable enthusiast, there are many more misinformed or incorrect speculators whose opinions usually spring from personal preference or a need to hear themselves talk.
For every knowledgeable enthusiast, there are many more misinformed or incorrect speculators whose opinions usually spring from personal preference or a need to hear themselves talk.
And this differs from Slashdot, how?;-)
Driving an unmodified car and proud of it. Can't stand "overtuned" cars.
the only way i could be a dummie is if i actually tried to improve my old saturn's performance.....leaving it run is the only way i can asure myself of my intelligence....
I hope that this book explains the usefulness of putting giant spoilers on front wheel drive cars to all idiots who continue to do so. I also hope that it explains the difference between a real exhaust system, and a fart pipe. Kids these days are really, really, really stupid, it seems (either that, or I'm getting old).
You've obviously never taken any aerodynamics classes. The point of the spoiler isn't for traction, it goes along with the basic understanding that an airfoil will provide a significant horsepower increase. Your typical spoiler on a Civic will increase horsepower 40 to 60 percent.
Take airplanes for instance. They need a large amount of thrust to get off the ground, so aircraft engineers went ahead and put TWO big airfoils on each side, as well as some smaller ones in back.
It's all simple engineering really. Let me guess, you think that stickers are purely aesthetic, and don't serve their main purpose of abrateable heat sheilding during fast runs?
You've obviously never taken any aerodynamics classes. The point of the spoiler isn't for traction, it goes along with the basic understanding that an airfoil will provide a significant horsepower increase. Your typical spoiler on a Civic will increase horsepower 40 to 60 percent.
So, assuming that you have a Civic that will go 120 MPH +, how exactly does downward pressure on the back end accomplish adding horsepower? And I'm sorry, I only took a few college level physics classes, but from what I remembe
You've obviously never taken any aerodynamics classes. The point of the spoiler isn't for traction, it goes along with the basic understanding that an airfoil will provide a significant horsepower increase.
Pot... come in pot, this is Kettle. You're looking mighty black today, over.
You forgot the thrust generated from the "fart can" style muffler. The rythmic pulse generated will induce a thrust coefficient similar to what a turbo would effect. Sure the sound is nice but the extra 50hp is the real gain. Tinted windows also reduce cabin temp allowing for increased ignition timing without detonation. Lets not forget how VTEC technology has brought hydraulic roller lifters into the spotlight. The reduced friction coupled with boost potential from the carbon fiber bling items have maximum
Spoilers (if they work correctly) create downforce at very high speeds.
Yea, but most of the time, if the cars they are on were capable of reaching the speeds needed to produce any aerodynamic effect - the way the spoiler is mounted will cause the trunk deck to collapse. Think about that, mmmmkay?
You're all somewhat wrong. Spoilers create downforce at _any_ speeds, including 0 (more weight). It's only really appropriate at higher speeds though. An FWD car, while not up high on the list of "needs more downforce" (FWD cars usually understeer very terribly because the front wheels have so much force (and usually weight by design) on them), but any car will benefit from more downforce in the "able to stay on the road while turning" category.
So, when was the last time you saw a Civic, or any other family car that kids like to dress up, lose traction in the rear wheels? Living in a college town, I see lots and lots of Civics and Corollas every day, but never have I seen one lose traction in the rear, no matter how fast they were going.
When was the last time you needed 2 GHz to check your e-mail. When was the last time you needed a giant SUV to get a carton of milk? When was the last time you needed anything more than bare minimum to do anything?
Personally, I hang out with a different crowd of people that actually does race their cars (on tracks, not the street like assholes), and I've seen many a car kick out the rear end around a corner (FWD or otherwise).
The average joe doesn't need much more than bare minimum. But it's fun to go
You're all somewhat wrong. Spoilers create downforce at _any_ speeds, including 0 (more weight). It's only really appropriate at higher speeds though. An FWD car, while not up high on the list of "needs more downforce" (FWD cars usually understeer very terribly because the front wheels have so much force (and usually weight by design) on them), but any car will benefit from more downforce in the "able to stay on the road while turning" category.
You're also wrong, by the way. A spoiler doesn't create any downforce. A wing is used to create downforce (negative lift, as the wing is exactly the same areofoil shape as you'd find on an airplane, except inverted). A spoiler simply "spoils" the lift generated by the inherent shape of a car. A car is roughly shaped like an aerofoil (rounded on top, flat on the bottom), and thus at higher speeds it tends to generate lift. It's certainly not enough for your car to actually fly, but it is enough to reduce traction necessary for handling and braking. By spoiling that aerofoil shape, a spoiler lessens the natural lift generated by the body shape of a car. For most non-racing applications, a spoiler is all you need, and in most cases you don't even need that (most factory spoilers are indeed cosmetic -- why is it that a Chevy Cavalier needs a spoiler, while a C6 Corvette doesn't?).
In a racing application, a simple spoiler is often not enough, however, and it doesn't really matter where your drive wheels are in that application. That's why you'll see touring cars like the Acura RSX or TSX, or the Mazda 6 with big wings in the Speed World Challenge races (and other touring car series). These are fully adjustable wings that generated downforce (the amount determined by the angle of attack, just as the amount of lift generated by an airplane is determined by its angle of attack). You simply do not need a big-ass wing like that outside of a full race car. That is why the ricers are silly for putting big ol' wings on their cars (well, aside from the facts that they suffer from "bigger is better" and "more is better" syndrome with huge and multi-level wings, and that 9 times out of 10 the wings they're buying are not fully adjustable, and that 10th time the wing isn't properly adjusted for the conditions).
DogDude didn't relay a point, other than he's ignorant of why people put spoilers on front wheel cars (As if the answer is different than rear wheel cars).
No, a front wheel car is not in danger of doing a wheelie, but the wheelie bars do help keep the front wheels from lifting and losing traction.
From NHRA magazine (talking about the for-runner for the car pictured in the link)
Bergenholtz earned his nickname when he and his brother, Ron, reinvented the wheelie bar and then broke the 10-second benchmark in the quarter-mile. Wheelie bars are like car training wheels. They trail behind a dragster, preventing it from tipping over backwards on launch. The Bergenholtz brothers put wheelie bars on their '89 Honda CRX - a front-wheel-drive car, which, by definition, cannot wheelie. On a front-wheel-drive car, the (now slightly misnomered) wheelie bars shift the center of gravity forward. They prevent the rear shocks from compressing at launch. This is, in fact, genius in its simplicity: Gain traction by planting the front end more firmly on the tarmac.
Moral of the story? When someone complains he doesn't see a reason for something, that is not a point its an admition of ignorance.
As to your point about caving in the rear deck, they can handle the weight of a 300lb person, at most denting the sheet metal. 300lb of downforce is quite a bit.
That said, they are probably superflous on many cars. But I'm not going to go parading my ignorance by laughing at it. You never know.
Actually, there's some pretty sound physics behind those wheelie bars on FWD drag cars.
The amount of rearward weight transfer is a function of CG height, wheelbase and longnitudnal acceleration amount - that's it.
The resultant pitch ANGLE that the sprung mass adopts as a result of the weight transfer is a function of weight transfer, pitch stiffness (driven primarily by spring rate) and jacking geometry (anti-squat) and you'd be suprised how many people confuse pitch angle with weight transfer.... anyway.
Downward forces applied behind the rear wheel will reduce the force on the front wheels where the braking, turning, and acceleration forces are most important. It's a simple matter of calculating the torque around the rear wheel and setting it equal to zero since the car is (hopefully) not going to rotate around the rear wheel. If your goal is to do "wheelies" in your car, it's another story.
In short, although rear mounted fins are helpful on rear wheel drive cars to increase acceleration, they are harmful
They do work well on REAR wheel drive cars. On front wheel drive cars i.e. the infamous 'Type R' all they do is reduce the amount of traction applied by the front wheels as the downforce provided by the spoiler is LIFTING the front wheels. They would work well mounted in front though...
Not really. Rear spoilers are only really useful on rear-wheel drive cars. The idea is to produce downforce, which is a term much bandied about by people without any real idea of what it actually means. What you are trying to do is get the rear wheels to stick to the road more firmly. Now, I can remember my father sticking a few paving slabs in the boot of his old Mk.II Ford Escort in the winter (back when we used to have winters) so the driven rear axle wouldn't slide about in the snow. Adding a spoil
Disclaimer: I'm a race car engineer. I make race cars go faster. It's my day job.
If we work under the assumption that the wing in question actually produces signifigant downforce (not a trivial assumption, given the typical aluminum extrusion pretending to be a wing from most rice shops) the download generated by the wing will be borne by all 4 tires.
Depending on a number of parameters, the rears may carry a larger share of that download, but the net effect will be increased normal force on the front tires, which in turn increases grip.
Now if our boy was smart enough to use a real airfoil on his wing, he was probably smart enough to fit a front airdam and splitter, which means he probably has way more FRONT downforce than rear, and is probably using the wing to help balance out a high-speed oversteer condition. On production-based cars, building front downforce is much easier than building rear downforce.
Is there a discussion of common car annoyances such as fart pipes, chain-link license plate frames, spoilers on family sedans, ill-fitting aftermarket plastic body kits, and drivers of any type of Pontiac?
spoilers on family sedans, ill-fitting aftermarket plastic body kits, and drivers of any type of Pontiac?
Man it's hilarious to see downforce spoilers/wings on front wheel drive cars. I may make a lot of people angry with this statement, but I can't help but laugh my white arse off when I see posers trying to lift their drive wheels off the ground. Absolutely hilarious.
Downforce on the rear wheels of a car won't lift up the front wheels, the front will receive the same amount of downforce, unless the rear wing is _way_ out behind the rear wheels, using the rear wheels like a lever. Yes ricers do that a lot, no it won't lift the front wheels up. Most of the shoddy body kits also serve to increase front downforce as well, by blocking off air from going underneath the car, creating a nice low pressure zone.
There may be, but will it help? After all, I doubt most of the maledies cited are the result of car owners doing thorough (read: any) research before modding their cars...so reading a book is probably out of the question.
Nothing is wrong with Pontiacs, except that they could lose all the plastic trim pieces, generally handle like dogs, and their owners actually think they're driving a car that's better than a Chevy.
Not that there's anything wrong with an inexpensive un-fancy car. I drive one myself, but don't have any illusions about it. Europe has a similar phenomenon with people who drive Alfa Romeos. They are always weaving around in traffic, revving the engine, looking like morons, because when you get right down to it it's no better than a Fiat.
It's more Toyota than Pontiac seems like an understatement. When I was talking to a Toyota salesman, he said the only GM part was the stereo. And of course you know car salesmen never lie! And I thought it was Yamaha that designed the engine
I have a 2005 Dodge Magnum RT [allpar.com], so a lot of the ricer-type "upgrades" don't apply to my car. I need a balance of old-school stuff (bigger exhaust, cold air induction) with new-school stuff (reprogrammed PCM). Unfortunately, a lot of the upgrades for the Hemi engine in the Dodge Ram pickups don't work with the Hemi engine [allpar.com] in my Magnum.
So my question is, does this book cater to the pocket racer crowd or will I find any good information for my 347 cid hot rod station wagon?
There's no way that a book like this can address the nuances of every motor, so I would say it's mostly useless to you. It can tell you in general terms what to do to a big displacement NA engine (colder air, better ECU, engine internals, etc.) but you probbaly already know that.
The simple fact is that in order to make your car faster, you need more air and more fuel. That's it.
Learn how your particular engine works, its tolerances, and its choke points. Fuel is easy to add more of, especially in a fuel injected car. Bigger injectors and the ability to change your fuel curve and monitor the engine status will fix that.
Air is harder. The MAF is often a choke point, as is the intake box. Throttle bodies will sometimes be an issue, although less so with the larger V-8 engines.
Something that will make power on engine 99.9% of the time will make power on another engine. Bigger exhaust, cold air intakes like you mentioned are the bread-and-butter of "ricers". The concepts are all the same, cram more air into the engine, along with more fuel. It's the same whether it's a 1.6L honda, or a 6.7 liter turbo diesel.
IMHO, the majority of modded cars you see on the road are driven in a significantly more aggressive manner than unmodded ones. This seems to outweigh a slight improvement or reduction in safety by such mods. That said, perhaps learning about safety from a "for dummies" book is even more important in these cases?
For every knowledgeable enthusiast, there are many more misinformed or incorrect speculators whose opinions usually spring from personal preference or a need to hear themselves talk.
VWVortex.com has some great discussion forums, although the main model-specific forums, especially the Golf/Jetta forums, are mostly full of "what rims should I get?" and suchlike, which is a shame because I keep finding that requests for actual help are buried under such junk. It's quite frustrating to check back a while after a request to find two pages of rim polls burying your post past the 1-3 pages most people bother to read. Some people resort to adding a photo to their post to get the camera icon next to their thread so people will open it even if the photo is unrelated to the help request.
Then there are the large number of people who, frustrated by this and by the search function that seems to be totally incapable of actually finding anything, post a nice query that obviously took some time to set up, only to be greeted by people who post "Use the search" or screenshots of the forum software toolbar with huge arrows pointing to the search function... which has probably already been tried, with no success.
So, I recommend the forums, but use the more-specific forums for your problem... although the sad fact still is that fewer people traffic those forums so you'll have to wait longer than you should for a real answer.
For what it's worth... TDIclub has great resources for modding TDI's (again, VW specific). Lots of really useful information on that, and not too many posers. Of course, you have to understand that you are trying to mod a 90 HP car that sounds like a tractor...not really cool with the in-crowd. But it takes a special person to "get" a diesel, and you can actually get some pretty descent performance out of it at the same time.
I am planning at this point to trade in my auto 2.0 for the Golf 5 TDI when it's available (since I no longer have to share the car with a non-stick driver... my ex-husband refused to learn) so I'll definitely be joing TDIclub and chipping the car when I've got it (I've heard great things about the TDI chips.) I want a fun-to-drive car that is efficient at the same time.
the best place to start might be the local car club. The folks in the club can direct you to race tracks that have a fairly large VW contingent. Go to these tracks and talk to people - drivers and builders - in the pits (but don't be a nuisance).
Years ago I was fortunate enough to find a VW shop run by a) a close-to-retirement gentleman who had everything and knew everything and b) his assistant who drag-raced VWs professionally (i.e. for money). Through them I bought an engine w/ the following specs:
That's exactly why you should go to Sport Compact Racing [sportcompactracing.com] instead of the 'Tex. The Whoretex is full of assess for the most part.
It's amazing what a simple ECU upgrade can do to a turbocharged engine with regards to performance;-)
Not at all. David's part of a performance car community that's quite the anti-thesis of "Ricing." Rather than the crowd from The Fast and the Furious, you'll find a group of people that are dedicated to increasing the performance of their vehicles by bettering the car's power and handling. Very little, if any, modifications are made to the cars that do not directly impact performance. For an example of such a tuning shop, check out the one David worked at a year ago, WORKS [worksevo.com].
www.diy-efi.org [diy-efi.org] is a great source of information on GM vehicles. The guys there have reverse engineered many GM ecms and distribute their work for free.
Right now I'm working on a GPL'd bin editor, and once that's done I'll be working on a PROM burner that works in Linux.
Oh, I should add a link to www.moates.net [moates.net] as well, since he makes lots of cool stuff like PROM emulators and USB programmers. Craig's gonna kill me...
Another one to check is PGMFI.org [pgmfi.org]. Very good DIY ECU hacking for Hondas. Covers most ODB0 and ODB1 chipping, reprogramming, adding boost, whatever.
And yes, moates.net is awesome. I have one of his pocket USB EEPROM programmers and haven't had a lick of trouble out of it.
So, since I doubt this would get an overall success rating from/. in an Ask Slashdot forum, and since it's more on topic talking about a book of Car Hacks.....
How many people dream of modifying a 60's model Mercedes sedan? I mean, don't you just drool at the thought of fiberglass bumper covers? Trick rims on lower suspension? Maybe some AMG disc break conversion info? 6.3L V8 swap. Oh yeah baby!
For every knowledgeable enthusiast, there are many more misinformed or incorrect speculators whose opinions usually spring from personal preference or a need to hear themselves talk.
Really!... Well then you have certainly come to the right place.
"For every knowledgeable enthusiast, there are many more misinformed or incorrect speculators whose opinions usually spring from personal preference or a need to hear themselves talk."
Dude, you just described the entire Internet. Get on a *moderated* mailing list if you want a decent signal to noise ratio.
When you tune your engine to go fast, you do it by improving the engine's volumetric efficiency. That typically means you'll burn more fuel (and air) than the original engine, but also make correspondingly increased power from a given engine displacement. If you combine that with gearing appropriate to your driving environment, you WILL get decent mileage, and be able to merge into traffic too.
If you want to significantly increase your mileage, then you need to address waste heat, and you need to reduce t
About a year ago I delt with David at length while he was working for WORKS [worksevo.com], a tuning shop in San Francisco. We were discussing the details of the power, handling, etc. modifications that they would be making to my Mitsubishi Evolution [mitsubishicars.com] (the car they in which they specialize). For the entire time I delt with David (before he left WORKS [worksevo.com] to pursue other things, like the book) I was consistantly impressed by his comprehensive knoweledge of both the technical and legal aspects of vehical modifications (especially impressive in good ole California thanks to strict emission standards).
His expertise and professionalism have resulted in him gaining much respect within the Evolution community, and although I have not yet had a chance to review his book, if it's anything like the conversations I've had with him, you'll be amazed by just how far car tuning has come.
Before talking with him, I didn't think it was safely possible to take a $32000 car, $7k of tuning, and end up just a hair short of a supercar*. Amazing.
Hope the book sells well.
-S...
* by which I mean a 2.0L 340hp 4WD beast that sprints from 0-60 in 4.4 seconds, skidpad tests to 1g, and through the twisties can out perform anything short of a 911 Turbo
Before talking with him, I didn't think it was safely possible to take a $32000 car, $7k of tuning, and end up just a hair short of a supercar
Not that fast, but a lot cheaper; I've driven Alfa Romeo 164 V6 and Mitsubishi Sigma, costing me around ?2000, and they go 140mph and do 0-60 around 7 seconds I think. Low cost, high funfactor outrunning all those -dime-a-dozen mobile discos and sportscars. Plus these sedans give you more respect from the general public. It always makes me laugh at movies like 2 Fast
For every knowledgeable enthusiast, there are many more misinformed or incorrect speculators whose opinions usually spring from personal preference or a need to hear themselves talk.
The whole reason for test and tune day at the track.
That grouping can be catorigized into two types of people. Those that actually race and those that do not. People have many different goals when it comes to building a car: looks, straight line speed, handling, and durability and almost always some mixture of each. With that, you get different opinions on what works and what does not.
There is some gray area.. Examples.. Some people remove the cooling water supply from the throttle body on cars so equiped. Some think it heats up the incoming air to much and others think it is required to cool the throttle body. Another one. At a 1/4 or 1/8 mile track, many people are pushing their cars to the line and apply ice to the intake, others run it to the line and have the car at normal operating temperature. For some, the colder denser air seems to be an advantage, for others, having the temperatures in the normal range puts the cars computer in a closed loop and running at its peak as it is not compensating for lower temperatures (retarded timing, incease in idle, higher or lower fuel/air ratio etc...) Each of these examples are really effected by what else the person has on the car and some are opinions. The actual indicator of advantage is the clocks time.
My point.. The people that actually race the car and can compare before and after times are the only ones that really know the true effect of a modification. 10 degrees advanced timing or 15 degrees? You will only know the true difference between the two on a track with a timer. Optimum tire pressure for your tire and suspension setup? Who the hell really knows without repeated timed laps. People that NEVER go to an actual track or an event are not the ones you want to blindly take advice from, those are probably the same people that put a new muffler on the car and swear they can actually feel the difference. I doubt anyone in the world can actually feel the difference between a real world difference of.01 to.1 seconds in a 1/4 mile let alone from one stop sign to the third telephone poll.
The time clock should be treated the same as running a doom3 timed demo after changing your memory timings. Does it just feel faster or do you have something indicated to back it up? That can seperate FUD from speculation.
I have a degree in the Automotive/Diesel Technology field and used to race, and I took 6 years of architectural and mechanical drafting between junior and high schools.
I can build amazing stuff out of Lego Technic, I run Debian and Freebsd.
Man, I've been a computer geek all my life. Recently I've started playing around with cars (got a couple non-turbo 3000GTs and a VR-4 coming next week). It's a tremendous amount of fun... As with the computer groups, there are a bunch of newbie folks and those in it just for the image... but for every ten of those there seems to be one or two knowledgeable folks.
I'm the first to admit that I know very little about modern cars. Just as with computers, however, there are things that seem to make sense but can be bad for your cars. I'm still in the fix it stage -- trying to put a car back to complete stock condition. It's almost like restoring an old Atari ST or Amiga to full functionality. E.g., the other day it took me a couple hours to change the front fog lights. The bolts had frozen up and grime had covered one of the screw holes so it wasn't immediately obvious how to remove them. After lots of cleaning I got them off, changed the bulbs, and got the housings repainted. The second time around it was a fifteen minute job. So, like learning some weird bash shell construct or new awk script, it was satisfying.
I read tons of geek message boards (go figure), as well as car enthusiast sites. I tune my Celica, read all kinds of boards, and I'm a CS student. So, I get to see the differences of the sub-cultures first hand. I have gearhead friends, and computer geek friends.
They are ONE IN THE SAME - believe me. The faster the better, and whoever has the best & biggest toys win.
You may write code or be an admin to prove to the world how smart you are. The tuner guys drive fast to prove to the world how f
Come on now. There are mods even a noob can do with high degree of success, cold air bypass being one. It's simple, inexpensive and will yield a few more horsepower quite easily. You learn by doing, the trick being not swimming out of your depth.
That whole chapter should have been nothing more than a warning regarding the "Gay Batmobile Effect"...which can only be explained by example. In this case, the example is a kid who lived not far from my now-ex-girlfriend when I lived out in Philly.
Specifically, a Hydundai Tiburon. Metalflake purple, with ground effects. Gold rims. Big non-functional scoop on the hood. Type-R stickers everywhere. And two -- yes, two spoilers, stacked one on top of the other. Some sort of bad airbrush art on the hood. When I first saw the thing, my first words, were, "Jesus Christ! It's the Gay Batmobile!"
So far the dummy books deal with non-lethal issues. The thought of encouraging a dummy-level person to dick with the steering, braking and engine of a lethal killing machine does not help one sleep well at night. I hope, but I doubt, that the book has only one page: "If you're a dummy then don't dick with your car!"
For every knowledgeable enthusiast, there are many more misinformed or incorrect speculators whose opinions usually spring from personal preference or a need to hear themselves talk.
Sounds like just about every discussion board I've ever read.
Where's the +1 (Ironic) mod when you need it?
(And I should get double bonus points for recursive irony...)
With all the fancy scientists in the world, why can't they just once
build a nuclear balm?
Noises (Score:3, Insightful)
Instead of reading other websites or books, he should have done a AskSlashdot
In my opinion (a WRX), it's best to leave any mods/upgrades to the experts. If you have the money to spend on mods, you should have the money to pay for the experts' time. Cars, in most cases, are the second most expensive asset a person's going to get (after a supercomputer), so I would rather put it in good hand, and just enjoy the outcome, not the journey of car mods.
Re:Noises (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Noises (Score:2)
Re:Noises (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Noises (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd tend to agree when it comes to novices and people who want a fast daily driver. But, personally, I'd rather become an expert myself and turn every bolt. That's why I built my own project car [trunkmonkeyracing.com] from the ground up for rally and ice racing.
But, by your logic, most computer users of high end systems should only trust installing software to the experts at Best Buy. ;)
Re:Noises (Score:3, Insightful)
Rephrase: novices getting in over their heads and people with no interest in mechanics who want a fast daily driver.
Yup (Score:2)
And in some cases, you might have a car where you'll need to do all the research and fabrication yourself. Some cars have impressive performance potential, but for various reasons were ignored by the aftermarket.
Plus in some cases, the challenge is to produce a sleeper car that no one expects to be fast.
http://www.turbovan.net/ and http://www.thedodgegarage.com/ are good examples of people who REALLY
Re:Noises (Score:4, Funny)
Most people would say house, but we are on slashdot so I am glad you have your priority straight.
Re:Noises (Score:2)
There are plenty of tuner shops around, but I bet Sturgeon's law is even worse than with general mechanics.
Even if you are going to pay someone else, you need enough clue to know what to ask for.
Re:Noises (Score:2, Interesting)
That's it, you are out of the hacker club! :)
There are different levels of mods.
Beginner - bolt on the exhaust and make vroom vroom noises. Do you really want to pay someone $70/hr to install this?
Intermediate - replacing engine components - camshaft heads; Bolting on superchargers. Almost everything in kit form. Requires an investment in tools (Sear Craftsman - not too bad)
Advanced - Fabrication! Welding in roll cages (maybe even bending them yourself). Welding up your own exhaust because no on
DIY is good (Score:3, Interesting)
If you put your car into a "Kwik-fit" type place for an oil change (£15 oil change offers are pretty common in tyre and exhaust centres round here) then that i
Install a larger fan for modding? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Install a larger fan for modding? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Install a larger fan for modding? (Score:3, Funny)
I'm going to go all-out l337 and install a water-cooling kit!
Ha! Mine CAME with liquid cooling!
Re:Install a larger fan for modding? (Score:2)
The 2CVs and Dyanes had an aircooled 600cc twin (with fairly manky exhaust emissions if not properly looked after). The 2CV Sahara was four wheel drive - it had a second engine mounted at the back!
And of course, if you want to really enjoy the aircooled fun, get a Tatr
Re:Install a larger fan for modding? (Score:2)
Do I need to install a really big fan on my car to mod it?
Um, yes actually. If you're tuning a turbo car with an intercooler, you need a large fan to provide airflow while getting the boost and fuel map right.
Re:Install a larger fan for modding? (Score:2, Funny)
Here you go: (Score:2)
Type R (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Type R (Score:3, Funny)
What are you talking about!? I have Sw33t Type-R decals on my Chevrolet Cavalier sedan. You're just jealous of those more l337 than you.
Re:Type R (Score:2, Funny)
"Sticker-Charging" -- The missing chapter! (Score:3, Funny)
Somehow this critical chapter was left out... editors these days! (sigh)
Addendum.
Chapter 31: "Sticker-charging" your Rice Rocket
Subtitled: If you can't go fast, make up for it by looking silly.
To increase the co-efficient of drag, add weight, reduce ETs and gain street cred with your peeps consider plastering your POS ragged-out pathetic bomb of an economy car with stickers. More is better, especially on four-door models. Our testing has fou
Sweet (Score:2, Funny)
And I thought it only happend on /. (Score:4, Funny)
And I thought it only happend on /.
Watch out, they see you coming! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Watch out, they see you coming! (Score:2, Funny)
Currently Active Users: 1712 (973 members and 739 guests)
Most users ever online was 6057, 01-18-2004 at 10:35 AM.
Re:Watch out, they see you coming! (Score:2)
That was two Slashdottings ago for the Star Wars Car [slashdot.org] at NASIOC [nasioc.com].
Re:Watch out, they see you coming! (Score:2)
Yes, and? (Score:2, Insightful)
And this differs from Slashdot, how? ;-)
Driving an unmodified car and proud of it. Can't stand "overtuned" cars.
well G'ah (Score:2, Funny)
why, color me surprised.
And you say there were people who were unifirmed, but still gave an opinion! jeez, what is the world coming to.
I think we are all very fortunate that slashdot doesn't have those things.
dummies? (Score:2)
Spoliers! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Spoliers! (Score:5, Funny)
Take airplanes for instance. They need a large amount of thrust to get off the ground, so aircraft engineers went ahead and put TWO big airfoils on each side, as well as some smaller ones in back.
It's all simple engineering really. Let me guess, you think that stickers are purely aesthetic, and don't serve their main purpose of abrateable heat sheilding during fast runs?
OMG!!! (Score:2)
Re:OMG!!! (Score:2)
Re:Spoliers! (Score:3, Funny)
So, assuming that you have a Civic that will go 120 MPH +, how exactly does downward pressure on the back end accomplish adding horsepower? And I'm sorry, I only took a few college level physics classes, but from what I remembe
Re:Spoliers! (Score:2)
Pot... come in pot, this is Kettle. You're looking mighty black today, over.
What? Informative? Insightful? (Score:2)
Re:Spoliers! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Spoliers! (Score:2)
Yea, but most of the time, if the cars they are on were capable of reaching the speeds needed to produce any aerodynamic effect - the way the spoiler is mounted will cause the trunk deck to collapse. Think about that, mmmmkay?
I believe DogDude's point stands.
Re:Spoliers! (Score:3, Informative)
-Jesse
Re:Spoliers! (Score:2)
Re:Spoliers! (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, I hang out with a different crowd of people that actually does race their cars (on tracks, not the street like assholes), and I've seen many a car kick out the rear end around a corner (FWD or otherwise).
The average joe doesn't need much more than bare minimum. But it's fun to go
Re:Spoliers! (Score:5, Informative)
You're also wrong, by the way. A spoiler doesn't create any downforce. A wing is used to create downforce (negative lift, as the wing is exactly the same areofoil shape as you'd find on an airplane, except inverted). A spoiler simply "spoils" the lift generated by the inherent shape of a car. A car is roughly shaped like an aerofoil (rounded on top, flat on the bottom), and thus at higher speeds it tends to generate lift. It's certainly not enough for your car to actually fly, but it is enough to reduce traction necessary for handling and braking. By spoiling that aerofoil shape, a spoiler lessens the natural lift generated by the body shape of a car. For most non-racing applications, a spoiler is all you need, and in most cases you don't even need that (most factory spoilers are indeed cosmetic -- why is it that a Chevy Cavalier needs a spoiler, while a C6 Corvette doesn't?).
In a racing application, a simple spoiler is often not enough, however, and it doesn't really matter where your drive wheels are in that application. That's why you'll see touring cars like the Acura RSX or TSX, or the Mazda 6 with big wings in the Speed World Challenge races (and other touring car series). These are fully adjustable wings that generated downforce (the amount determined by the angle of attack, just as the amount of lift generated by an airplane is determined by its angle of attack). You simply do not need a big-ass wing like that outside of a full race car. That is why the ricers are silly for putting big ol' wings on their cars (well, aside from the facts that they suffer from "bigger is better" and "more is better" syndrome with huge and multi-level wings, and that 9 times out of 10 the wings they're buying are not fully adjustable, and that 10th time the wing isn't properly adjusted for the conditions).
Re:Spoliers! (Score:4, Informative)
DogDude didn't relay a point, other than he's ignorant of why people put spoilers on front wheel cars (As if the answer is different than rear wheel cars).
One place you won't see "ricer" nonsense is on the drag racing track. But you will see wheelie bars and spoilers on front wheel cars [todaracing.com].
No, a front wheel car is not in danger of doing a wheelie, but the wheelie bars do help keep the front wheels from lifting and losing traction.
From NHRA magazine (talking about the for-runner for the car pictured in the link)
Moral of the story? When someone complains he doesn't see a reason for something, that is not a point its an admition of ignorance.
As to your point about caving in the rear deck, they can handle the weight of a 300lb person, at most denting the sheet metal. 300lb of downforce is quite a bit.
That said, they are probably superflous on many cars. But I'm not going to go parading my ignorance by laughing at it. You never know.
Physics behind the FWD wheelie bars (Score:3, Interesting)
The amount of rearward weight transfer is a function of CG height, wheelbase and longnitudnal acceleration amount - that's it.
The resultant pitch ANGLE that the sprung mass adopts as a result of the weight transfer is a function of weight transfer, pitch stiffness (driven primarily by spring rate) and jacking geometry (anti-squat) and you'd be suprised how many people confuse pitch angle with weight transfer.... anyway.
Re:Spoliers! (Score:2)
In short, although rear mounted fins are helpful on rear wheel drive cars to increase acceleration, they are harmful
Re:Spoliers! (Score:2)
Re:Spoliers! (sic) (Score:2)
No. (Score:5, Informative)
If we work under the assumption that the wing in question actually produces signifigant downforce (not a trivial assumption, given the typical aluminum extrusion pretending to be a wing from most rice shops) the download generated by the wing will be borne by all 4 tires.
Depending on a number of parameters, the rears may carry a larger share of that download, but the net effect will be increased normal force on the front tires, which in turn increases grip.
Now if our boy was smart enough to use a real airfoil on his wing, he was probably smart enough to fit a front airdam and splitter, which means he probably has way more FRONT downforce than rear, and is probably using the wing to help balance out a high-speed oversteer condition. On production-based cars, building front downforce is much easier than building rear downforce.
DG
Re:Spoliers! (Score:2)
Car annoyances (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Car annoyances (Score:3, Funny)
Man it's hilarious to see downforce spoilers/wings on front wheel drive cars. I may make a lot of people angry with this statement, but I can't help but laugh my white arse off when I see posers trying to lift their drive wheels off the ground. Absolutely hilarious.
Re:Car annoyances (Score:2)
-Jesse
Re:Car annoyances (Score:2)
Re:Car annoyances (Score:2)
Re:Car annoyances (Score:4, Funny)
Not that there's anything wrong with an inexpensive un-fancy car. I drive one myself, but don't have any illusions about it. Europe has a similar phenomenon with people who drive Alfa Romeos. They are always weaving around in traffic, revving the engine, looking like morons, because when you get right down to it it's no better than a Fiat.
Re:Car annoyances (Score:2)
Re:Car annoyances (Score:3, Interesting)
And I thought it was Yamaha that designed the engine
What about the non-ricer? (Score:5, Interesting)
So my question is, does this book cater to the pocket racer crowd or will I find any good information for my 347 cid hot rod station wagon?
Re:What about the non-ricer? (Score:2)
Re:What about the non-ricer? (Score:2, Informative)
Learn how your particular engine works, its tolerances, and its choke points. Fuel is easy to add more of, especially in a fuel injected car. Bigger injectors and the ability to change your fuel curve and monitor the engine status will fix that.
Air is harder. The MAF is often a choke point, as is the intake box. Throttle bodies will sometimes be an issue, although less so with the larger V-8 engines.
Re:What about the non-ricer? (Score:2)
-Jesse
Car mods for dummies (Score:2, Insightful)
seems familiar (Score:3, Funny)
I have nightmares about an unmodded slashdot...
For VW lovers, I recommend ... (Score:5, Informative)
Then there are the large number of people who, frustrated by this and by the search function that seems to be totally incapable of actually finding anything, post a nice query that obviously took some time to set up, only to be greeted by people who post "Use the search" or screenshots of the forum software toolbar with huge arrows pointing to the search function
So, I recommend the forums, but use the more-specific forums for your problem
Re:For VW lovers, I recommend ... (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, you have to understand that you are trying to mod a 90 HP car that sounds like a tractor...not really cool with the in-crowd. But it takes a special person to "get" a diesel, and you can actually get some pretty descent performance out of it at the same time.
Re:For VW lovers, I recommend ... (Score:2)
For air-cooled VWs... (overclocking a putt-putt) (Score:3, Interesting)
the best place to start might be the local car club. The folks in the club can direct you to race tracks that have a fairly large VW contingent. Go to these tracks and talk to people - drivers and builders - in the pits (but don't be a nuisance).
Years ago I was fortunate enough to find a VW shop run by a) a close-to-retirement gentleman who had everything and knew everything and b) his assistant who drag-raced VWs professionally (i.e. for money). Through them I bought an engine w/ the following specs:
Re:For VW lovers, I recommend ... (Score:2)
It's amazing what a simple ECU upgrade can do to a turbocharged engine with regards to performance
colors... yellow in specific (Score:2, Funny)
So it's basically (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So it's basically (Score:2)
These enthusiasts partake in spir
Obligatory diy-efi.org link (Score:2, Interesting)
Right now I'm working on a GPL'd bin editor, and once that's done I'll be working on a PROM burner that works in Linux.
Oh, I should add a link to www.moates.net [moates.net] as well, since he makes lots of cool stuff like PROM emulators and USB programmers. Craig's gonna kill me...
Re:Obligatory diy-efi.org link (Score:2)
And yes, moates.net is awesome. I have one of his pocket USB EEPROM programmers and haven't had a lick of trouble out of it.
the only website you need (Score:2)
A car modification guidebook for the stylistically-impaired [riceboypage.com]
tuning potential (Score:2, Funny)
you just got a new Minivan??? sweet!
Car Mods for 1960's Mercedes (Score:2)
So, since I doubt this would get an overall success rating from /. in an Ask Slashdot forum, and since it's more on topic talking about a book of Car Hacks .....
How many people dream of modifying a 60's model Mercedes sedan? I mean, don't you just drool at the thought of fiberglass bumper covers? Trick rims on lower suspension? Maybe some AMG disc break conversion info? 6.3L V8 swap. Oh yeah baby!
Bring it on, let's get some ideas!!!!!
Excerpt from article sounds familiar. (Score:2)
Really! ... Well then you have certainly come to the right place.
Where have I ... (Score:2)
"For every knowledgeable enthusiast, there are many more misinformed or incorrect speculators whose opinions usually spring from personal preference or a need to hear themselves talk."
Dude, you just described the entire Internet. Get on a *moderated* mailing list if you want a decent signal to noise ratio.
What about the... (Score:2, Interesting)
Jeep Enthusiasts! [4wd.com]
It's the simple things that get overlooked... (Score:2)
What engineer decided a 1/4" depression would be suitable to hold a cup? Especially in an off-road vehicle, they're useless.
One solution [cardomain.com]
Not all hacks are hard
Fuel Efficiency (Score:2, Interesting)
Unfortunately, there's no source for after-market parts or chips that can do this, which makes me sad.
Re:Fuel Efficiency (Score:3)
High performance... (Score:5, Funny)
You've got the Civic DX too eh?
Good Car Mod Site (Score:2)
http://www.overboost.com [overboost.com]
Car modding is definitely not cheap though...
Very knowledgable author :) (Score:5, Informative)
About a year ago I delt with David at length while he was working for WORKS [worksevo.com], a tuning shop in San Francisco. We were discussing the details of the power, handling, etc. modifications that they would be making to my Mitsubishi Evolution [mitsubishicars.com] (the car they in which they specialize). For the entire time I delt with David (before he left WORKS [worksevo.com] to pursue other things, like the book) I was consistantly impressed by his comprehensive knoweledge of both the technical and legal aspects of vehical modifications (especially impressive in good ole California thanks to strict emission standards).
His expertise and professionalism have resulted in him gaining much respect within the Evolution community, and although I have not yet had a chance to review his book, if it's anything like the conversations I've had with him, you'll be amazed by just how far car tuning has come.
Before talking with him, I didn't think it was safely possible to take a $32000 car, $7k of tuning, and end up just a hair short of a supercar*. Amazing.
Hope the book sells well.
-S
* by which I mean a 2.0L 340hp 4WD beast that sprints from 0-60 in 4.4 seconds, skidpad tests to 1g, and through the twisties can out perform anything short of a 911 Turbo
Re:Very knowledgable author :) (Score:2)
Not that fast, but a lot cheaper; I've driven Alfa Romeo 164 V6 and Mitsubishi Sigma, costing me around ?2000, and they go 140mph and do 0-60 around 7 seconds I think. Low cost, high funfactor outrunning all those -dime-a-dozen mobile discos and sportscars. Plus these sedans give you more respect from the general public.
It always makes me laugh at movies like 2 Fast
Just great (Score:2)
Arm chair car mechanics (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole reason for test and tune day at the track.
That grouping can be catorigized into two types of people. Those that actually race and those that do not. People have many different goals when it comes to building a car: looks, straight line speed, handling, and durability and almost always some mixture of each. With that, you get different opinions on what works and what does not.
There is some gray area.. Examples.. Some people remove the cooling water supply from the throttle body on cars so equiped. Some think it heats up the incoming air to much and others think it is required to cool the throttle body. Another one. At a 1/4 or 1/8 mile track, many people are pushing their cars to the line and apply ice to the intake, others run it to the line and have the car at normal operating temperature. For some, the colder denser air seems to be an advantage, for others, having the temperatures in the normal range puts the cars computer in a closed loop and running at its peak as it is not compensating for lower temperatures (retarded timing, incease in idle, higher or lower fuel/air ratio etc...) Each of these examples are really effected by what else the person has on the car and some are opinions. The actual indicator of advantage is the clocks time.
My point..
The people that actually race the car and can compare before and after times are the only ones that really know the true effect of a modification. 10 degrees advanced timing or 15 degrees? You will only know the true difference between the two on a track with a timer. Optimum tire pressure for your tire and suspension setup? Who the hell really knows without repeated timed laps.
People that NEVER go to an actual track or an event are not the ones you want to blindly take advice from, those are probably the same people that put a new muffler on the car and swear they can actually feel the difference. I doubt anyone in the world can actually feel the difference between a real world difference of
The time clock should be treated the same as running a doom3 timed demo after changing your memory timings. Does it just feel faster or do you have something indicated to back it up? That can seperate FUD from speculation.
Gentoo And Ricers? (Score:2)
http://www.funroll-loops.org/
Re:Gentoo And Ricers? (Score:2)
I have a degree in the Automotive/Diesel Technology field and used to race, and I took 6 years of architectural and mechanical drafting between junior and high schools.
I can build amazing stuff out of Lego Technic, I run Debian and Freebsd.
And i still say Gentoo is for Ricers!
Natural fit (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm the first to admit that I know very little about modern cars. Just as with computers, however, there are things that seem to make sense but can be bad for your cars. I'm still in the fix it stage -- trying to put a car back to complete stock condition. It's almost like restoring an old Atari ST or Amiga to full functionality. E.g., the other day it took me a couple hours to change the front fog lights. The bolts had frozen up and grime had covered one of the screw holes so it wasn't immediately obvious how to remove them. After lots of cleaning I got them off, changed the bulbs, and got the housings repainted. The second time around it was a fifteen minute job. So, like learning some weird bash shell construct or new awk script, it was satisfying.
haha yeah (Score:2)
They are ONE IN THE SAME - believe me. The faster the better, and whoever has the best & biggest toys win.
You may write code or be an admin to prove to the world how smart you are. The tuner guys drive fast to prove to the world how f
Mod my Car up, please. (Score:2)
If you want some REALLY good information... (Score:2)
A little bit of self promotion here. :)
Amongst my other racing-oriented duties, I maintain a web page full of links to books on Amazon that will teach you a LOT about race car engineeering
Yes, I make a little kickback from Amazon on this, but that helps to offset the bandwidth costs. It's main purpose is to educate.
See The Street Modified Engineering Resources page [streetmodified.org] for more info. I've also got a smattering of techical articles on the team home page at Far North Racing [farnorthracing.com]
Have fun!
DG
Speed holes? (Score:2)
(hint: Simpsons)
Cosmetics? (Score:3, Funny)
Specifically, a Hydundai Tiburon. Metalflake purple, with ground effects. Gold rims. Big non-functional scoop on the hood. Type-R stickers everywhere. And two -- yes, two spoilers, stacked one on top of the other. Some sort of bad airbrush art on the hood. When I first saw the thing, my first words, were, "Jesus Christ! It's the Gay Batmobile!"
Duh! Me (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Heh. (Score:2)
Sounds like just about every discussion board I've ever read.
Where's the +1 (Ironic) mod when you need it?
(And I should get double bonus points for recursive irony...)