What ethical problems? Decompiling is perfectly moral and ethical. Whether it is illegal is a seperate and, for me, almost irelevant issue. If I legally own a copyrighted work I am allowed to read it, period and end of story. Corporate licences excepted, software is SOLD, not licensed despite the scary words on the box and the dread click through EULA.
Hell, I learned assembly by writing a disassembler (in BASIC) and reading the Microsoft BASIC roms, then l
What ethical problems? Decompiling is perfectly moral and ethical.... If I legally own a copyrighted work I am allowed to read it, period and end of story. Corporate licences excepted, software is SOLD, not licensed despite the scary words on the box and the dread click through EULA.
I disagree here. I am a strong believer that people should be able to trade goods/services for prices/conditions they mutually agree upon. If I write software and say I will sell it to you for $x on condition that you do Y
> I think it is morally repugnant of you to break our agreement and decompile.
While you are welcome to your delusions, but out here in the real world we have some things called laws. Specifically the Uniform Commercial Code and the Copyright laws.
You will note that I excepted commercial licenses, since those are actual signed contracts and are legally binding.
According to the Uniform Commercial Code if goods are exchanged in regular trade there can't be strings attached; i.e. if it looks like a sale
When you think about it - you can overwrite most laws (non-criminal laws) with a contract - so long as the contract is not illegal (i.e. a contract that between groups to rob a bank is not legal). A good example is contracts that break the "employment at will" clause that many states use.
So if I write some material and I state that part of our agreement is that you cannot read certain sections of it - by purchasing it you are agreeing to my terms and can be held liable in a civil court. Remember - in term
IANAL but it seems to me that these arguments for click through EULAs fail on the basis of what I understand contract law to be. That is, there is no contract unless both sides recieve something of value. Now lets looks at software: I buy some software from a store, I pay the store money, they give me a box that contains a product. At this point a contract has been excercised - the store gets money, I get the the full use of the product I have purchased so everybopdy gets what they deserve. I then open
The trade of value occurs at purchase (you gave money for the box and its contents). Since it is not feasible to sit down with a lawyer at a retail store for each purchase - there is a delay from when you purchase the product to when you see the EULA. You can return the product to the store if you are not happy with the EULA. TO say that since the EULA was not presented in visible writing prior to the purchase is not valid BECAUSE you have the option for a full refund. You have the option to read that EULA for -30- days. Again the exchange is your money for the box - the contract is valid on this point.
When you purchase the book - if there is a contract "you buy this book but are forbidden to read chapter 2" then again - you exchanged money for the book and its contract. Now the bookstore purchased the book from the publisher and they (thusly) agreed to its contract. You standing in the bookstore reading it is violating the contract that the bookstore agreed to when buying the books....obviously the person who gave the original book example was just using it as a general argument and something like that is tough to enforce (just like its tough to prevent you from decompiling some code).
Again, as above since you can return the product (30 days) to the store - you have plenty of time to agree to the EULA. As for you giving the money to the store and restricting their use of the money - I have never heard of such a situation. It could be feasibly possible - but I think the store would tell you to take your $49.95 and go run back to Never Never Land:D
There is one problem with this - try returning an opened box of software to any store. Almost all retailers these days have a clause on the reciept that you recieved at the time of purchase that they will not accept any returns of opened software. You can only exchange it for the exact same product (ie, if the media is defective). This effectively kills any remedy you have under the EULA. Remember, boys and girls, the software giants sell to the wholesalers, big retailers, and big corporations (who have
That clause - in all reality - means dick. You would be surprised what a few carefully laid out words will do to a store clerk. Something along the lines of - you can take this product or I am calling my credit card company who will then refuse to pay you AND you will have to come to my home at MY convenience to pick it up. But for those who do not use credit cards the following words work well "If you do not accept the return of this product with its receipt - which is within the 30 day LEGAL return pe
So, you're saying we should know our rights regarding contract law when it's between us and the store, but not when it's between us and you? You want us to buy your product, then go through all kinds of hassle to return it when we don't accept your EULA which isn't valid anyway?! That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard!
Copyright and Fair Use applies to YOU TOO, ASSHOLE! If you don't like it it is your fucking responsibility not to sell your software if you don't want people to use it -- once I buy
What on gods green earth are you babbling about? Did someone hit you over the head with a retarded stick? Would someone mod this person flame/idiot?
Where in my post do I say *I* am selling a product.
Where in my post do I say that *I* post a EULA.
Once you buy software it is yours to use so long as you obey the EULA. Again - if you want to test the waters on this - break the EULA go to the company and admit to them you broke the EULA and then make a post from your friends computer informing us that you
An EULA is only valid if both parites agree to it. However, it can also be valid if one party can litigate the other into oblivion without even going to trial. Like the other poster says: Break EULA, get pummeled into nothingness by the company's lawyers.
What ethical problems? (Score:5, Insightful)
What ethical problems? Decompiling is perfectly moral and ethical. Whether it is illegal is a seperate and, for me, almost irelevant issue. If I legally own a copyrighted work I am allowed to read it, period and end of story. Corporate licences excepted, software is SOLD, not licensed despite the scary words on the box and the dread click through EULA.
Hell, I learned assembly by writing a disassembler (in BASIC) and reading the Microsoft BASIC roms, then l
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:3, Insightful)
I disagree here. I am a strong believer that people should be able to trade goods/services for prices/conditions they mutually agree upon. If I write software and say I will sell it to you for $x on condition that you do Y
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:5, Interesting)
While you are welcome to your delusions, but out here in the real world we have some things called laws. Specifically the Uniform Commercial Code and the Copyright laws.
You will note that I excepted commercial licenses, since those are actual signed contracts and are legally binding.
According to the Uniform Commercial Code if goods are exchanged in regular trade there can't be strings attached; i.e. if it looks like a sale
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:2)
So if I write some material and I state that part of our agreement is that you cannot read certain sections of it - by purchasing it you are agreeing to my terms and can be held liable in a civil court. Remember - in term
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:1)
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:2)
When you purchase the book - if there is a contract "you buy this book but are forbidden to read chapter 2" then again - you exchanged money for the book and its contract. Now the bookstore purchased the book from the publisher and they (thusly) agreed to its contract. You standing in the bookstore reading it is violating the contract that the bookstore agreed to when buying the books....obviously the person who gave the original book example was just using it as a general argument and something like that is tough to enforce (just like its tough to prevent you from decompiling some code).
Again, as above since you can return the product (30 days) to the store - you have plenty of time to agree to the EULA. As for you giving the money to the store and restricting their use of the money - I have never heard of such a situation. It could be feasibly possible - but I think the store would tell you to take your $49.95 and go run back to Never Never Land
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:1)
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:2)
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:2)
Copyright and Fair Use applies to YOU TOO, ASSHOLE! If you don't like it it is your fucking responsibility not to sell your software if you don't want people to use it -- once I buy
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:2)
Where in my post do I say *I* am selling a product.
Where in my post do I say that *I* post a EULA.
Once you buy software it is yours to use so long as you obey the EULA. Again - if you want to test the waters on this - break the EULA go to the company and admit to them you broke the EULA and then make a post from your friends computer informing us that you
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:1)
Re:What ethical problems? (Score:2)