Ok you hate PHP. But how many other Popular alternatives are out there. JSP Oracle is the bad guy right. ASP Microsoft is the bad guy right. Perl The 1990's called and they want their programming back. Ruby on Rails, good alternative however it will be hard to find replacement programmers. Python, Python is my favorite language, however it isn't that good for web.
That's nice. You are comparing lightweight interpreter (PHP) to a Scala which runs on beast called JVM and consumes a lot more memory just to start and print Hello world.
You can literally run tens or even hundreds of small PHP websites on a 512 MB VPS or even a few larger. You also shouldn't forget about shared hosting, where most of PHP websites are hosted (albeit those are small sites, but they represent majority of all sites written in PHP).
Nonetheless, PHP language is improving and with the number
it also makes you look like an idiot who can't form their own opinions.
So does using the "but everyone else is doing it" argument.
I've used all kinds of languages for different purposes and the only thing I can say nice about PHP is that it is nearly as ubiquitous as Perl. Otherwise it is neither as capable or well thought out as it's competitors. My personal pet peeve is the inconsistent error handling (some functions just return true/false, some use NULL and false interchangeably, some write their error messages to STDERR, some to STDOUT, most give you no way to programmatic
So does using the "but everyone else is doing it" argument.
That's not the argument I'm making:)
PHP is ubiquitous. That's certainly an advantage as far as maintaining it's share of the web. However, that didn't happen overnight. PHP is ubiquitous today because it did the job it was designed to do better than competing languages. This is still true today, as evidenced by several "superior" fad-languages failing to gain any ground. If PHP was garbage that no professional would touch, it couldn't have possibility achieved such an astonishing share!
Yeah, only idiots use PHP -- that's why it's only used by 80% of the web
While I agree with your point about language snobbery, popularity doesn't imply user intelligence. There was a time when 80% of the web was written in Comic Sans with green text on a yellow background;)
Disclaimer: I actually do like PHP, in spite of the inconsistencies that do admittedly plague it.
Yes, Perl is a paragon of structure and consistency:
Exactly what the EXPR argument to when does is hard to describe precisely, but in general, it tries to guess what you want done. Sometimes it is interpreted as $_ ~~ EXPR, and sometimes it is not. It also behaves differently when lexically enclosed by a given block than it does when dynamically enclosed by a foreach loop. The rules are far too difficult to understand to be described here. See Experimental Details on given and when later on.
Python and Ruby are strongly typed, unlike PHP which doesn't even rise to the lofty title of weakly typed, stupidly typed is more accurate.
I am more familar with Ruby, so I will comment based on that, but my recollection of Python isn't much different. An object in Ruby is a specific type and will never be a different type, you can not coerce it(although you can get the object to return its representation in a different object: to_s, to_a, etc) to anything else and has no casting. You can't get much safe
Python, Python is my favorite language, however it isn't that good for web.
The standard for making a python application interact with a web server is wsgi, you can run it inside apache with mod_wsgi or run it in a dedicated server such as uwsgi. Or if you want to go asynchronous you can try tornado.
I like Django... that's my preference for new projects, but I have a lot of older PHP projects, and some of the developers here are still creating and maintaining PHP sites, and I have no problems with them, either. PHP works well for what it was designed for; I love Python, but we've managed to do some pretty complicated and, more importantly, working sites in PHP. I have no problem with it.
Get over your bias, and use whatever programming language needed for the job. I'll take a job doing PHP, perl, ruby, python, java, even actionscript. If I'm paid well, I'll learn it. My resume gives me the flexibility to get jobs using different languages, precisely because I'm not biased and have worked professionally in most of them.
I'm in the same place having worked on large PHP projects.
It doesn't mean it's a good technology though, it's still shit and if you're starting a project rather than taking one over then there's always a better option to choose than PHP unless the client stubbornly mandates it.
It really is high time PHP was phased out, there's just too many better alternatives out there, which if you're as experienced in other languages as you say I'm sure you already know.
I don't think anyone is saying don't use it if it's
One page book (Score:-1, Flamebait)
DON'T
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Ok you hate PHP. But how many other Popular alternatives are out there.
JSP Oracle is the bad guy right.
ASP Microsoft is the bad guy right.
Perl The 1990's called and they want their programming back.
Ruby on Rails, good alternative however it will be hard to find replacement programmers.
Python, Python is my favorite language, however it isn't that good for web.
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There is a nice looking framework for Scala called Play. I think that could be a good alternative. http://www.playframework.com/ [playframework.com]
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How many web hosts support it? That is why PHP still lives on.
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I'm not sure but it should run as long as you have Java. Scala compiles down to Java byte code.
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You can literally run tens or even hundreds of small PHP websites on a 512 MB VPS or even a few larger. You also shouldn't forget about shared hosting, where most of PHP websites are hosted (albeit those are small sites, but they represent majority of all sites written in PHP).
Nonetheless, PHP language is improving and with the number
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Yeah, only idiots use PHP -- that's why it's only used by 80% of the web [w3techs.com].
Language snobbery benefits no one. Unless you're Chuck Moore, it also makes you look like an idiot who can't form their own opinions.
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it also makes you look like an idiot who can't form their own opinions.
So does using the "but everyone else is doing it" argument.
I've used all kinds of languages for different purposes and the only thing I can say nice about PHP is that it is nearly as ubiquitous as Perl. Otherwise it is neither as capable or well thought out as it's competitors. My personal pet peeve is the inconsistent error handling (some functions just return true/false, some use NULL and false interchangeably, some write their error messages to STDERR, some to STDOUT, most give you no way to programmatic
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So does using the "but everyone else is doing it" argument.
That's not the argument I'm making :)
PHP is ubiquitous. That's certainly an advantage as far as maintaining it's share of the web. However, that didn't happen overnight. PHP is ubiquitous today because it did the job it was designed to do better than competing languages. This is still true today, as evidenced by several "superior" fad-languages failing to gain any ground. If PHP was garbage that no professional would touch, it couldn't have possibility achieved such an astonishing share!
You can critici
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Yeah, only idiots use PHP -- that's why it's only used by 80% of the web
While I agree with your point about language snobbery, popularity doesn't imply user intelligence. There was a time when 80% of the web was written in Comic Sans with green text on a yellow background ;)
Disclaimer: I actually do like PHP, in spite of the inconsistencies that do admittedly plague it.
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Not quite what I meant -- see my other reply. Apparently I can't communicate ideas today.
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Yup, as stupid as the Facebook bank balance.
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FTFY
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Yes, Perl is a paragon of structure and consistency:
Exactly what the EXPR argument to when does is hard to describe precisely, but in general, it tries to guess what you want done. Sometimes it is interpreted as $_ ~~ EXPR, and sometimes it is not. It also behaves differently when lexically enclosed by a given block than it does when dynamically enclosed by a foreach loop. The rules are far too difficult to understand to be described here. See Experimental Details on given and when later on.
- Perldoc [perl.org]
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Lua + LuaJIT is can be interesting too.
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Dart might be interesting, when they stop changing everything...all the time.
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I am more familar with Ruby, so I will comment based on that, but my recollection of Python isn't much different. An object in Ruby is a specific type and will never be a different type, you can not coerce it(although you can get the object to return its representation in a different object: to_s, to_a, etc) to anything else and has no casting. You can't get much safe
Python is just fine for the web (Score:2)
Python, Python is my favorite language, however it isn't that good for web.
The standard for making a python application interact with a web server is wsgi, you can run it inside apache with mod_wsgi or run it in a dedicated server such as uwsgi. Or if you want to go asynchronous you can try tornado.
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If you hire actual programmers that have not only domain knowlege but understand computation they will pick up both Ruby and Rails quickly.
Hire programmers, not programming language/framework end-users.
When you are writing a web app you can use whatever you like and there are a lot of good options:
Perl
Python(with or without the various framworks)
Ruby(with or without Rails or Sinatra) & JRuby
Smalltalk
Haskell
Lisp & Cloju
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"JSP Oracle is the bad guy right.
Don't have to use JSPs and don't even really have to go near Oracle. There are fully open source Java stacks.
"ASP Microsoft is the bad guy right."
Truly skilled high quality professionals don't care about fanboyism, they just use the best tool for the job. If that's ASP.NET then so be it.
"Perl The 1990's called and they want their programming back."
I'll let you have that, though I'd argue that Perl is both of a higher quality design in that it's been built with sound academic
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Python, Python is my favorite language, however it isn't that good for web.
Go home, comment. You're drunk.
Django [djangoproject.com], Pylons [pylonsproject.org], Bottle [bottlepy.org], Flask [pocoo.org], TurboGears [turbogears.org], Zope [zope.org], Web2Py [web2py.com]...
And that's just some of the popular frameworks..
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Re:One page book (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm in the same place having worked on large PHP projects.
It doesn't mean it's a good technology though, it's still shit and if you're starting a project rather than taking one over then there's always a better option to choose than PHP unless the client stubbornly mandates it.
It really is high time PHP was phased out, there's just too many better alternatives out there, which if you're as experienced in other languages as you say I'm sure you already know.
I don't think anyone is saying don't use it if it's
Re:One page book (Score:4, Informative)